SamR's Site: Should Professors Read Plans?

At times, I worry that my presence in the plans community interferes with the normal functioning of that community. On 23 April 2003, I posted a reflection on the issue and then started getting some interesting replies. This document gathers some of those materials.

Why is it a Web page? Because plans are by their nature ephemeral and I'd like a semi-permanent record of the discussion or at least the replies. I also turn almost everything into a Web page.

Initial Posting

Today in class, I referred to a student's plan. The student seemed genuinely surprised that I read the student's plan, even though I've sent comments on it in the past. Another student said "Yeah, Sam, since I know you read my plan, I censor myself." That raises the question: Should I stop reading plans? Should I only read plans that planlove me (which makes plans much less fun for me, since I like following the planlove links when reading at 2 a.m.)? Should I ask [KenslerJ] to add a "No Profs" options to plans?

Some Replies

[Rebelsky] and anyone else who will listen -- I believe that if Person X feels like he has to censor his plan because Person Y might read it, that's Person X's problem, not Person Y's. And it's none of my business what Person X does with his plan, but I think he's nuts. Personally, I'm flattered when anybody cares enough about me -- and not an edited version of me -- to read my plan. Why on earth would I "censor" my plan for professors? To me, not only does it seem weird to want to do that (why would someone not want her professors to really know her?), but it just seems rude. Professors are people just like everyone else. They eat, they sleep, they shower, they pee, they read Megatokyo. Since it was their choice to read or not read in the first place, to ostracize them by censoring one's plan for them is, in my opinion, just wrong. Does anyone agree with me?

[Rebelsky]: i'm with [cccccccc] on the profs on plans thing... i occasionally realize that you and other profs read plans, but it doesn't seem like a good reason to further censor what goes up here... and you should definitely NOT give up plans.

[Rebelsky]: No! I was thrilled back in the day to hear that a prof actually maintained a plan and was an active participant in the Plans community. Though the "No Prof" option is intriguing, I find it a bit depressing. I'd like to think that in general, a damaging moral vacancy absent, that of my personal life that I mention on plans is greeted with a relatively amoral dismissal by profs understanding of our maturity differences. Furthermore, historically you and [Stone] have provided a wealth of information to those of us who only visit this campus for a short 4 years--your contributions have been invaluable to our experiences as students, to say nothing of the intrinsic value of your involvement in our lives. Additionally, I've never felt the urge to censor myself despite knowing that a few profs check up on me from time to time. [bbbbbbbb] feels the same way, considering the sickeningly obscene unattributed quote directly below his comment to you. Also, at the risk of forming an infinite loop, I agree wholeheartedly with [dddddddd]

I second [cccccccc]'s emotion, [Rebelsky]. Although I've only had the pleasure of one or two lectures with you, I fully understand the type of impact you have, as [cccccccc] said, on those of us only here for four short years. I have the same impression of [Stone], a man I greatly respect and have learned as much or more from than any other teacher in my life. Personally, I feel almost honored that any professor would peek at my plan and make the effort to look into (albeit one of many) one facet of a student's life and personality and thankful I may do the same with professors like you. Plans are not grand windows of enlightenment or insight, but fun, if nothing else. I won't censor myself in the least solely because a professor might read it.

[Rebelsky] I personally think you should have an officilaized policy to not consider information written on students plans in any interactino they have with you (if you can pull that off :). Otherwise, get as close to the CYA thing as possible. - OR - you can have a list to pass around that a student who DOES mind you reading their plan can sign, OR a list giving their approval for you to read their plan and ensure them that this will not be used against them in their grading or interactions with you.

[Rebelsky] That you read my plan is good. Now [********] and I have someplace to live for those final days of May. We were thinking about camping in a tent, so your offer is a god-send.

Furthermore. that you respond to it in-class is really not that distressing. It's generally amusing, actually.

It's just that sometimes I want to post things that I'm not sure how I'ld feel a respected prof. reading. It's a trade off, really, and I just complain about it because I have nothing better to do. (^_^) I'll stop. Please, keep reading my plan... and making references to it.

[Rebelsky]'s plan (discovered through friends' plans) makes me wish that more professors had plans.

[Rebelsky]: I say "no" to all of those. Teachers have as much right to read plans as students do, IMO. I think teachers should be responsible about it and respect the general idea of plans (i.e. no teacher should be cruising plans looking for underage drinkers to turn in, or anything like that). But teachers could read plans under the VAX system, so I don't see why they shouldn't be able to here.

[Rebelsky]: you could just do what [Stone] does-- don't read the plans of people who don't like professors to read their plans. and the "no prof" idea can't work because that could prevent profs. from reading a person's plan, but not from reading about that person on others' plans. For the record, I am thrilled at seeing that [plans]addiction is not limited to students alone.

Followup: [Rebelsky]: Informing you is their responsibility-- through a simple "[rebelsky] don't read my plan," email, or any other method they choose. Also, using Notes is a better option than making your own website on this issue. Start a thread.

[Rebelsky]: no, I like profs on plans. Everyone already censors themselves to an extent anyway.

[Rebelsky]- on the debate over whether professors should read plans--- I have do admit that I've written on my plan less this semester knowing that you've read it. Yet, at the same time I've enjoyed reading your plan and think that the plan surveys you raise on plans are good. It hardly sounds pracitcal to keep people on your autofinger list and scan through the plan to see if your name is on it without reading anything else or to use the quicklove feature and seeing the same unchanged things all the time. However, I would appreciate a professor preference (which I would toggle often depending on mood).

I found the whole "should Prof's look at plans" via planlove through people I've never met with officially. I also keep my plan guest-readable so that people outside of the domain of plans can read what I have to say.

An opinion formed as to whether professors should read plans depends entirely on what the opinion's holder views is the purpose of plans. I myself find I'm very vocal about my thoughts, opinions, observations, etc. and don't mind bits of controversy surrounding someone reading something that might possibly be construed as damaging or insulting. (Not that I go out of my way to do these things, as I am a nice girl.)

I also write plans without the knowledge of how to hack into plans and find out who has me on autofinger. Basically, this is published material, of a sort. Its written to be seen. Anyone who thinks their plan is private among a few individuals needs to go to "list users" and see just how many people have perfectly allowable access to their plan. If the fear of saying something on plans that might come back to haunt them makes them censor their plan for teachers, it should do the same for fellow students.

As someone else said, Professors are people too. Its kind of nice to see the human side of a professor, and a professor should be willing and desiring to see the human side of their students. (It would make negotiating extensions that much more interesting if they knew what was really going on in the students lives!!!)

Basically, I'm a big fan of honesty and open communication. And anyone on plans should be aware that this format facilitates an environment for people like me. If they want to keep things private, that's what listservs are for.

[rebelsky] Keep reading them. I'll add myself to the [bbbbbbbb], [cccccccc] and [dddddddd] infinite loop. :D

But quite seriously, the point is well-made by [cccccccc]. I've never had a CS class with either you or [Stone] but I read both of your plans; partially because you bring a different perspective to plans and partially because you both have interesting things to say. As such, I'm wholeheartedly behind the idea of profs having plan accounts and using plans the way they were meant to be used. I also completely disagree with the No Profs option; if it bothers someone, why don't they e-mail you and ask you not to read their plan? Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. (But then again, I don't know specifics, so take that with a grain of salt.)

I think [Rebelsky] is (getting a little anal | going a little overboard) by using Siteweaver to create a page about whether or not professors should read plans.

I do admire his data mining however, and I think [student-a] would be neater than [aaaaaaa]. Also, if you are using a letter-substitution scheme to protect people's privacy, you should be consistent and not use [********]. However, I recommend [non-disclosedx] as I do, where x is an integer greater than zero.

It should also be apparent that since I am openly mocking [Rebelsky], I don't mind him reading my plan.

I'll admit I'm also doing it for the attention and would like to have my words preserved on his "Should Professors Read Plans?" site.

Citation: Rebelsky, Samuel A. SamR's Site: Should Professors Read Plans? <http://www.cs.grinnell.edu/~rebelsky/Plans/profread/>. Apr 24 2003.

since like a good social scientist i'm mortally terrified of the science building, i've never actually met [rebelsky] but i've stumbled across the debate about profs reading plans and find it intriguing..i agree with students [hhhhhhhh] and [iiiiiiii] wholeheartedly. the vast majority of profs i would not object to reading my plan, as long as they aren't 'hunting for troublemakers.' in fact for several profs it could serve as a valuable self-esteem booster. there's a few, however...hence my agreement with [iiiiiiii]. profs are a little higher in the hierarchy and some students would feel uncomfortable jeopardizing their grades or student-prof relationships by making what is essentially a student forum accessible to their teachers.

I agree with [hhhhhhhh], [Rebelsky]. There is no expectation of privacy when one posts on plans. Therefore, students should anticipate that professors are going to read plans. In light of professorial presence, students should only post what they would feel comfortable posting in any public forum. Furthermore, given the nature of plans, i.e., a medium for sharing the goings on in one's life without needing to worry about reprisal from authority figures, professors should not, as [hhhhhhhh] stated, use plans to track down and report students to administrators.

I like professors reading plans. I'd be flattered if the profs whose plans I read ([Rebelsky] [Stone] [Gumben]) (or skim, depending on whether I have a clue what they're talking about) read my plan or referred to it. I think it's a nice proof of the rapport that students and professors have here, something that I never really felt in high school. Sure, I liked my teachers, and I talked to them sometimes, but not in a setting as informal and with such varied topics as plans.

[Rebelsky]: I've found your plan through friends', and have really enjoyed reading it. I've got no problem with profs having/reading plans. In fact, I wish more profs had them. Plans are basically public domain (open to the Grinnell public, anyway). They're not a diary or a journal. They're not a quiet conversation alone with a close friend. Rather, plans are like a chalkboard in the middle of campus - a quick, temporary, and open means of expression and communication. Profs are people too! (wouldn't that be a great protest slogan?) People you don't know, or even your enemies, can read your plan. Why would you care if a prof can?

[Rebelsky] why don't you just post on your plan a message to students, saying to leave a message at the top of their plans if they don't want professors to read them? If I was a professor, I'd be really tempted to read the plans of my students. But I don't think it's entirely respectful to get that kind of a glimpse into any student's private life, unless you know for sure that they're okay with it... which is almost impossible to tell.

[Rebelsky], I think more professors should have plans, as long as they participate through at least semi-regular updates. As I said to [********], the great thing about plans is that they can facilitate conversations between people who otherwise never would have exchanged ideas.

[rebelsky], you're the one who offered me registration advice, right? I think it's great that you and other profs have plans.

Thanks [Rebelsky]. I've also heard a lot of good things about [HeroldK] too. Oh and by the way, to weigh in on whether professors should have plans or not, of course they should! One of the few things that I don't like about my profs is that I never see them outside of class or hear what they have to say about the Grinnell community, and I think it's awesome that the comp sci profs are setting a trend in this. As to the whole privacy thing, I don't and won't censor my plan based on who (or who isn't) reading my plan because I think that that'd take away from the whole purpose of plans.

Reflection

I generally enjoy reading plans. I'll admit that I prefer not to read about students' sexual practices, drinking habits, and consumption of other recreational substances. When plans have those kinds of materials, I tend to skip the section or move to another plan.

I try very hard not to let what I read in a student's plan affect my interaction with the student, except for my normal tendency to pick some attribute of a student a know about and use it in a joke. That tendency would hold even if I didn't read plans. I note that many students do the reverse for me (that is, make jokes about things in my plan), so I think that's acceptable.

A number of students clearly like it the professors have plans. By implication, I think that suggests that they're willing to let professors read plans. (I'll also note that one reason I am so public about my plan, in addition to it being a part of plan-addiction, is that students need to remember that others are reading their plans. Not just professors, but also folks from student affairs and beyond.)

History

This page was generated by Siteweaver on Sun Apr 27 23:44:00 2003.
The source to the page was last modified on Sun Apr 27 23:43:55 2003.
This page may be found at http://www.cs.grinnell.edu/~rebelsky/profread.html.

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Samuel A. Rebelsky
rebelsky@grinnell.edu

Should Professors Read Plans?

Introduction

Initial Posting

Some Replies

Reflection

History